I have a philosophy professor that thinks vaccines cause autism and they are dumbing down the human race. Can you help me argue back?

Question

barbro · Accepted Answer

You are getting trolled by your prof. and hard.  direct link between vaccinations and autism. Yes, the direct link between autism and vaccinations is that vaccinations have advanced medicine to the point that other afflictions, that were less a priority in the past, have come to the forefront. Now you hear about autism, then you heard about smallpox. Where are the geniuses? The average education level of the world is probably a bit higher now than it was then. Therefore back then, people weren't quite as smart and so somebody with a small educational advantage would seem a genius. Thats why Newton was considered a genius for discovering gravity!  Yes, doctors get money for giving out vaccines. It is a part of the job.  So he isn't exactly lieing, but he is misrepresenting some facts. I'm guessing that is going to be the next subject you guys cover in that class.

Lavinie · Answer

""Where are the geniuses?" "I don't know, but there certainly does seem to be a genius vacuum up near the front of this room..." "

Chere · Answer

Penn and Teller did an episode of Bullshit on this topic. It covered most of the misconceptions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo97VouL0ls http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_nYMEO82mo

Champa · Answer

give him rabies, that ought to shut him up

Marina Kunze · Answer

The really disturbing thing here is the amount of people in this thread who also believe that vaccines are bad...

Tuulikki · Answer

Japan banned the MMR vaccine, and guess what? Autism rates continued to rise: here

Gunilla · Answer

If he's studied biology my guess is that he wants you to research this preposterous argument for yourself so that you'll learn the truth.  But here are some articles relating to how the author (Andrew Wakefield) of the original paper has been proven a fraud and how his license to practice has been revoked.  http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05/autism.vaccines/index.html http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article5683671.ece http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=370 http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20027552-10391704.html Also contents of vaccines from the CDC: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf EDIT: You need to look for thiomersal. That's what carries mercury in vaccines.

REMA · Answer

I found this podcast pretty to be pretty informative... Ginger Campbell's Books and Ideas, Episode 40 It's basically an extended interview with Dr. Paul Offit, Ph.D who is Chief of the Division of Infectious Diseases and the Director of the Vaccine Education Center at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, co-inventor of the rotovirus vaccine (in short, he's qualified, a trait often lacking in these debates). Nice historical perspective and everything.

Faye · Answer

I hope you realized that the study that initially created this thought was completely and thoroughly debunked

Katharina Schuhmacher · Answer

It MUST be true if Jenny McCarthy says it is!

Eedla · Answer

Have a look at this. I imagine he is playing troll. I would expect that as a philosophy proffessor, he is looking for how you coutner such arguments.

WENONA · Answer

There are some cases of this, I've read about 5 stories on it now... it's fairly new. But your teacher is right... Just ask him to give you the facts.

Barbara Eichelberger · Answer

We're certainly being dumbed down, but, vaccines are not to blame.

MARKITA · Answer

You should just argue that correlation is not causation. Crime in New York City is directly correlated with Ice Cream sales every year! But the have a common cause, temperature.

Nagma · Answer

Seems like he is on his Alex Jones, Illuminati, and Bilderbergers shit...

LUBA · Answer

Ugh... ask him for any proof to his argument, and then remind him he has a doctorate in philosophy. Not in medicine.

Quillan · Answer

I'd say just ask him why he thinks that. Then say that study conducted was completely full of shit and the guy who conducted it even said it was fake. This may turn into something really big and you might not want to do it. Are you ready for the challenge?!

kamilla · Answer

Tell him about this kid and watch him try to explain it.

Ilayda · Answer

"There's a wise old philosophical saying... "opinions are like assholes... everybody has one". "

Antje Bayer · Answer

Taking a philosophical tack, you might propose that the mountain of scientific evidence indicates that there's some chance, even if he believes it's a small one, that he's wrong. If he can accept that, you might ask how comfortable he would be if, one day, one of his students lost a child to polio, small pox or measles, because of what he had told them. It's fine to present one's opinion, but in cases where espousing a certain viewpoint involves life or death decisions, there are ethical concerns that come into play. You could present the question of whether he really wants to wrestle with that, or if it would be more prudent to keep these particular views to himself. In my opinion, this approach would be more useful and fruitful than trying to convince him to change his views.

Godfrey · Answer

here you go.

VERDELL · Answer

Collate your evidence and present it to him in private. If he's serious, he's an academic first and foremost and should be willing to see evidence which contradicts his claims. If he's trolling you (which I suspect he is) then you win big in his view of you for taking the trouble to do real research and present it.

Thom · Answer

Use your sources with legitimate scientific credentials to make him look like an idiot. And ask him to produce his.

Simone Kalb · Answer

Show him the flynn effect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

Caryn · Answer

he's an academic dude. Tell him to find a study that supports him (by the way the autism thing was a hoax- no one's been able to replicate the study), or tell him to conduct his own. As for the conspiracy stuff, ask him to cite investigative journalism from a reputable news source.

Istvan · Answer

You are like the figuratively first student I've met who really deals with the topic of the course, does research etc. What a great professor!

Fancie · Answer

Oh, come on. Everyone knows the increase in diagnosis of autism is directly correlated to the emergence of the Scientology religion.

Hewet · Answer

Obviously worked in his case.

Katey · Answer

Professor Troll.

bibbi · Answer

Ask him if he's vaccinated and if he feels dumb...

Kattarina · Answer

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, professor. Where is your evidence?

Leonie Feierabend · Answer

I recommend asking him how come he is so sure and so bold in his opinions. Then cite Heidegger's discussions on semblance, and truth as unfolding.

Anthi · Answer

He said today that there was clearly a direct link between the emergence of vaccinations and autism.  Ask him for a reference. He will be able to find 1 paper, which has been exposed as fraudulent multiple times and retracted.

LATOSHA · Answer

I recommend asking him how come he is so sure and so bold in his opinions. Then cite Heidegger's discussions on semblance, and truth as unfolding.

Hugh · Answer

Tell him that is irresponsible for a person in his position to spread information that has deemed false by scientific consensus, regardless of whatever anyone believes.

Janie · Answer

There has been a SEVEN TO EIGHT FOLD increase in the rate of autism in California since 1990. There has been virtually no change in the rate of vaccinations of children over that same time period. Linking the two is kinda dubious.

Elmaza · Answer

Obviously worked in his case.

Bentley · Answer

Ask him if his past vaccinations have caused himself to become autistic or if he was simply born this way...he obviously has some sort of mental disability.

Nolia · Answer

r/skeptic

Anja Meister · Answer

I think it has to do with television. Maybe you should find someone who had polio and bring them to your class and ask him to explain to that person why vaccines are so bad.

Heva · Answer

"Buy him a copy of Dr. Ben Goldacre's "Bad Science". It's an essential read for everyone. "

Beeda · Answer

Sure, I have a cricket bat and a baseball bat. Which would you prefer?

MUOI · Answer

Really really easy argument here  Mr. Professor fucktard moron, what evidence do you have to support your outlandish assertion? Please do not site the KNOWN debunked reports of autism. Thanks!

Gungor · Answer

Philosophy professor arguing an already-disproven point? Bring along a biology professor.

Eva-Helena · Answer

Is he spreading this misinformation in class? If not, I wouldn't waste your time arguing with him. Otherwise you just need to some research to dig up information about the biology of vaccines and the immune system, what's in them, toxic levels of things.  Mercury, as an example, is toxic but it isn't actually harmful in low doses. Further, it's not in all vaccinations. His question of 'where are the geniuses' is just retarded.  Back when everyone was mediocre and we didn't know much about anything it was easy to stand out for small discoveries. We've already discovered most of the easy stuff.  We have higher levels of education now. There's lots of very smart people doing smart stuff but they don't stand out as much. He's also forgetting his history - the Dark Ages.

Evette · Answer

"You wouldn't happen to be in San Diego, would you? I think I know that prof. He was one of my favorites! Seriously, awesome guy, if a little "out there". "

AISHA · Answer

You need to fuck his cat... that'll learn him

VI · Answer

Hey prof, do you have an evidence to support this claim? Oh, no, you don't? Well this article links 91 references which counter the claim.

Cay · Answer

There has been a SEVEN TO EIGHT FOLD increase in the rate of autism in California since 1990. There has been virtually no change in the rate of vaccinations of children over that same time period. Linking the two is kinda dubious.

Loree · Answer

You could start with a list of who supports each side. On one hand you have droves of respected medical professionals. On the other hand you have Jenny Mcarthy.

Ghaida · Answer

philosophy of science  There's your problem. These guys are social 'scientists' who critique science without actually understanding it.

Venny · Answer

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4055

anina · Answer

how about the fact that there probably were just as many cases of autism before vaccines but that autism was misunderstood/misdiagnosed therefore the numbers didn't reflect actual cases... i'm not saying his right or wrong however the long term affects of vaccines are still not known...i personally wouldn't be surprised if proof did come to life that the vaccines did cause harm... i work in a hospital and i will only get a vaccine if i'm required to which most are not...

Melanie Bumgarner · Answer

No need to argue back in front of the class and force him into a pissing contest. Come to him after class with your facts, help him change his mind so next semester's students aren't subjected to this crap.

Gift · Answer

Were you vaccinated?

Flossie · Answer

TIL certain autistics consider the search for a way to medicate or cure autism as a genocide of a way of life.

Maaria · Answer

Talk to one of your science professors and have them discuss it. That or file a complaint with the department. Vaccine induced autism is a craze with absolutely no basis just propaganda, and it is killing children.

Bellamy · Answer

""edit: The guy is not stupid or anything. He went to undergraduate and graduate at Cambridge, and has studied graduate level biology I guess" Stupid people are everywhere. Even at top flight institutions. It's what a person says, does, and believes that makes them stupid, not where they went to school. If he believes a word of this, he's stupid and ignorant. In addition, the fact that he's an educator makes him borderline dishonest.  Absolutely challenge him in class. Not for yourself, or to try and change his mind, but for the other students who might believe him because they're not aware or skeptical enough to investigate for themselves. Never underestimate a successful person's ability to be stupid on a galactic scale. "

Daria · Answer

I love it when teachers troll ad students fall for it.

Dzejla · Answer

"E-mail him all of your evidence from a random e-mail account with a trollface "Problem?" at the bottom of it. if he mentions any of the foolishness again, forward that same e-mail to the entire class.  "

Christina Gruenewald · Answer

"say: "I completely agree, professor. Look how vaccines have lowered your cognitive function. In fact, I think vaccines have made you display the classic symptoms of autism: inability to relate to other people, living in your own world, and hypersensitivity to certain outside stimuli." "

KENYETTA · Answer

Never underestimate the power a meme can wield over the human mind. Even the most brilliant people believe the most ridiculous things.

Phedra · Answer

This guy really doesn't care about science or the scientific process if he believes that. Either he's trolling you for the debate, or he really is an idiot, and you should dump the class and write a complaint letter to the school.

Corinne · Answer

I made an account just to comment in this thread. I'm finishing up my Masters in Speech Pathology with a special interest in autism. Things like this make me rage, and not just because it's flat out wrong, but because it really puts children at risk. Tell your professor to show you the proof. Just because he studied biology doesn't mean he knows shit about the current state of vaccine research or its application to developmental disabilities.  This is an editorial, but it was published in the British Medical Journal. It gives a pretty good rundown of the history of this controversy, thankfully with emphasis on proof that the original study back in 1998 linking autism and vaccines was found to be fraudulent. http://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.c7452.full Solid research represent.

dima · Answer

'philosophy' of science. meh. enough said.

Ellina · Answer

He is following conspiracy theories from Alex Johnes. The bad news is that he is absolutely right. However if you want to get in on the argument, use the same kind of facts and tactics that he himself uses in the class. If you want to beat your boxing trainer, then do what he taught you. That's how it's done right. Of course, if you can surprise him with a few new moves, that's awesome.

Slade · Answer

A. you don't try to change your professor's opinions. I tried and failed many times. Except for my literature class professor, but that grew into short lived friendship. It's just their opinions are much more firmer than yours. B. You can't out-argue a competent philosophy professor. 200 level class was fun because he started first class arguing with every atheist that there is god. Once he had em all cornered, he told them that he is atheist too, but it's important to see the strengths of the other side of the argument.  C. if it's not a part of the curriculum, fuck it. Let it go, there's MORE important battles that you're gonna have in your life that are actually WORTH winning.

Vivianne · Answer

If you can't argue with him on your own, don't bother. You'll just look like a huge asshole.

Ancie · Answer

Where are the geniuses?   Off discovering things.

Clarisse · Answer

I don't care about giving a counterpoint, but a alternative point to consider: Vaccines keep us from getting bad diseases that would otherwise kill large amounts of people. Since people who are susceptible to these bad diseases are kept alive, their genes remain in the gene pool and then have the potential to perpetuate their sub-par genes which waters down the gene pool creating sub-par mutations that are passed on from generation to generation which makes future generations genetically inferior (dumbs them down). I'm not a biologist/geneticist or calling for any kind of cleansing, but I think this is a bigger point than vaccines possibly causing these problems as described by your professor.

LUCILLA · Answer

Um, tell him he's wrong because the facts say so? (And his comment about the geniuses is patently absurd.)

Andrea Ackerman · Answer

My psychology professor thought that blowjobs helped prevent breast cancer.  She is now divorced.

Gunvi · Answer

I dunno if someone has posted this yet, but if you want evidence for what most directly causes Autism, look up this guy: Simon Baron-Cohen Google Scholar should work fairly well for finding the papers he's published, and I know there are summaries floating around too.

Karlie · Answer

Tell him that just because the vaccines he took as a child has dumbed him down, the vaccines used today are safe ... witness his students.

Julia Faerber · Answer

Ask him if he's been vaccinated. When he answers yes, call him a retard and storm out. Too far?

Rebeccah · Answer

He may well be right but I think you need to point out that life expectancy before vaccines averaged about age 30 and that millions of people died every flu season. Dead trumps dumb.

MICHIKO · Answer

Ever might think that this may be true? It's not very far fetched, look at what pharmaceutical companies are pumping out and then recalling later on because of the effects. They really sadly and sickenly care about money more than people.

Nolia · Answer

Present your arguments and evidence to him. See how he rebuts you. This is about you learning how to debate. Have an open mind about what he is saying  despite what a lot of people here are saying there are some weighty people who believe a lot of what he says. Rolling Stone Magazine had a huge article about this written by RFK Jr. which contained some pretty damning evidence.

Salla-Maaret · Answer

correlation != causation

Maria Luisa · Answer

Has he been vaccinated? :D

Alex · Answer

"There's a good joke that's relevant: A physics professor is talking to the head of funding for the university and says, "I need $1 million for a new experiment." The head of funding replies, "Why can't you guys be more like the math department? All they need are pencils and wastebaskets. Or, better yet, the philosophy department? They don't even need wastebaskets." "

Christin Kruger · Answer

However you decide to approach it, a private meeting in his office gives you more chance of a real conversation. The 3rd element of an audience takes away from a person's ability to reason and give a benefit of the doubt, IMO. I wouldn't expect to change his mind, but it will make him aware that he might need to step up his game if he wants to convince anyone of his viewpoints. Your post makes me thankful to have a professor who is highlighting cases like the retracted study published in Lancet in 1998 by Dr. Andrew Wakefield. On the other hand, he believes the human life span is declining and is much shorter than it was in biblical times (100-150 yrs). He's says modern medicine has temporarily stalled the decline...

Inaaya · Answer

Look into a connection between autism and the averagge age women start having children. If i remember, women are trying to have children later in life. Older they get the higher chance of autism.

Juliane Kluge · Answer

As someone who worked in Autism research labs in college, and currently works in the practice side of the field, I can tell you no one with a scientific background who works with Autism believes that vaccines cause the disorder. Every study that has been done since the one that claimed to have found a link has disproved it. The original was even recently revealed publicly to be fraudulent (the researcher changed and misreported results). There is literally NO evidence supporting the claim that Autism is, or ever was, caused by vaccines. There's 10 years worth of research on the topic since the original study, and no replication.

ELOUISE · Answer

""But that's wrong you retard." "

Ulfet · Answer

Well that's just like... uh... your opinion, man.

Simone Schreiner · Answer

"The so-called "link" between autism and vaccines is almost entirely anecdotal: kids get the vaccines, and a few days/weeks later their parents notice behavior changes. Classic case of correlation =/= causation. Why? Because autism behavioral symptoms emerge around the same age as MMR vaccines are typically given, so correlation is to be expected. As for vaccines preventing geniuses from emerging, well, it's not impossible, but there thousands of confounding factors - pretty much every social and environmental change you can think of could also explain changes in genius incidence. Blaming it on one factor in particular is an extraordinary claim that would require extraordinary evidence. Your prof is almost certainly trolling. "

Griswold · Answer

Anonymously humiliate him. If there is no class before yours put multipage fact sheets in each chair explaining why he is wrong. Cite sources. Be thorough. Or anonymously email the entire class with sources.

Samson · Answer

You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

Ulla-Kaarina · Answer

Ask him if he is speaking from experience.

LORIANN · Answer

If you need help arguing back, why do you disagree? You obviously don't even have a good reason to. You just want to?

Guher · Answer

The correct retort is that hiring idiots to teach philosophy is dumbing down the human race

Malka · Answer

Watch this documentary by Frontline. It will give you perspectives from both sides and it's really informative: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/vaccines/view/

Kristin Wurfel · Answer

Ask him for his sources...

Borgny · Answer

Charlie Brooker always has the answers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ujy0hibN8E This is a very good wrap up of the issue. Edit: Damn, its not the video I thought, it still covers the issue but I am pretty sure there's a better one out there discussing this issue

Olaf · Answer

Tell him that is why he is in philosophy and not medicine.

Lyssa · Answer

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Everyone needs to remember: this is a philosophy course. To me, this looks like an opportunity to debate epistemology in relation to his supposed belief that vaccines cause autism  exploring the application of epistemology to medical science. If I were your professor, and no one questioned this, I would give you a failing grade. Love is the law, love under will. Lord_NShYH

I have a philosophy professor that thinks vaccines cause autism and they are dumbing down the human race. Can you help me argue back?

Blakelee

Cesya

Chantal

Clare

Jean

Johnette

Lucila

Madelin

Noell

Rayshell